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Post by redwolfe on Aug 28, 2008 3:04:17 GMT -5
I have been watching the Democratic National Convention and I am SOOO angry at all the blatant lies these politicians are saying - its just all rhetoric that means nothing and bullshit
For a start Bill Clinton praises Barack Obama and says how he is ready to be president and how he will lead america in the right direction - never mind the fact that Clinton has spent over a year campaigning for hillary saying Barack Obama is too inexperienced to be president and he cannot lead - so now it suddenly changes at the convention??? its just a blatant lie - how can they honestly expect to change america if they do it with lies???
Then Joe Biden says that barack Obama will make Anmerica the world's leader again - excuse me??? isnt america already the world's leader - why lie Biden and imply that its not - that sounds like treason to me
and they introduce Biden as the next VP of the US - thats a fucking lie too - theres no guarantee he will be the next VP - they should introduce him as the man who MIGHT be the next VP if he wins
And the list goes on - lie after lie after lie
It makes want to not even do reversals on the speeches cos of what i will find. Noone will believe the reversals anyway and I will just be called biased. Never mind that i have a 20 years history of success with my results and predictions. I remember when i said on the art bell show that bill clinton was up to sexual shennagins - art bell said i was obviously biased and didnt like clinton - didnt hear a retraction from him when the monica lewinski scandal broke - wonder why not
i am pissed
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Post by shewolfe on Aug 28, 2008 3:18:42 GMT -5
Yes, doesn't it make your blood boil!?! I watched Michelle obama's speech, what I could take of it, (Im sure she's very nice) and I noticed that the drone-like voices, were putting my brain in the alpha state, like I was in a trance. Then, I switched to Baracks speech, and noticed within 5-10 minutes I had drifted off into nowhere land, again, like their voices were trained to put us in a trance like state.
And the way they are all acting like it's for sure that he will be the next pres....yes folks, the elections are rigged.
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Post by redwolfe on Aug 28, 2008 3:20:15 GMT -5
and if he loses, will they apologise to the american people for lying to them
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Post by shewolfe on Aug 28, 2008 3:22:30 GMT -5
he cant lose.....if he does, the whole world will have to suffer with mccain, and he is prolly worse than bush.
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Aug 28, 2008 5:02:45 GMT -5
The thing is, if Obama wins, he's likely to appoint an AG who could end up charging many of Bush's cronies with crimes that could land them in prison. The Republicans own the voting machines, but the voting machines are being phased out. However, to win, Obama's margin must be so big that the Republicans can't steal it. Republicans are financing Ralph Nader's campaign, hoping he'll draw enough votes off from Obama so as to throw close states into McCain's column. It is for this reason that I have nothing but contempt for those who vote for independants or 3rd party candidates. But, this could change if we had the "instant run-off" voting I wrote of in another thread.
I would like to think it was rigged for Obama, but I can't feel that confidant.
America is not the world's leader. America is the world's largest debtor, we have been bought and paid for. America is the world's laughing stock. We make nothing anymore. We produce nothing. We can make threats with weapons, but even that's being laughed at these days.
As for "the next President," etc...you have to assume the victory. You can't say, "maybe." I'm sure even in Parliamentary systems, a party leader is introduced as "The next Prime Minister."
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Post by redwolfe on Aug 28, 2008 5:25:48 GMT -5
Not in australia - they dont introduce the candidate as a sure thing - in the last election the leaders of the respective parties were saying things like IF I win i will do this or that - and they are introduced as the leader of their party, not as the next prime minister - it is dishonest to say that one will win when the outcome is not assured
and this is america's big problem - they are dishonest - the adverts are dishonest - the hype is dishonest - general everyday conversations are dishonest - this is america's big problem that none of the candidates are addressing
obama should be introduced honestly as the democratic party nominee NOT as the next president of the US - that is the honest and decent way
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Aug 28, 2008 5:47:27 GMT -5
It's been done that way since I was a little kid. It's just cheerleading is all. But, when I was a kid, America was the world's largest importer of raw materials and the world's largest exporter of finished goods. We were the world's largest creditor nation. Now, we are the world's largest exporter of raw materials and the world's largest importer of finished goods, making us the world's largest debtor nation. We can't make it here anymore. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbWRfBZY-ng
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Post by redwolfe on Aug 28, 2008 5:55:44 GMT -5
It's been done that way since I was a little kid. It's just cheerleading is all. and that is exactly the problem - its been done so long its accepted as normal practice but that doesnt change the fact that it is dishonest - america will never solve its problems until it learns to become honest - how many lies are brushed aside, oh its just cheerleading, or advertsing or oh thats just spin - america even employs spin doctors to lie and convince people about something - and thats called an honorable profession something is seriously wrong
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Post by Shadout Mapes on Aug 28, 2008 11:52:09 GMT -5
Well that's all about the inner branding and competition, it's something of an American trait too. But, I remember decades ago people saying that what happened to England would come to the USA after another generation. And as sir Winston once said: "Americans can always be counted upon to do the right thing - after all other possibilities have been exhausted." Perhaps in fact its only today with Obama that Americans will begin to turn the tide against the denile of rights and overpopulation and the right wing etc. I can't see how it can be any other way unless we really do wise up about greater elements of our shared human mythos... but they're not ready, aber nicht, aber nicht? You are great M'Liege! ><Tomasina ChicaWolverina!
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Aug 28, 2008 12:23:21 GMT -5
I really had to sleep on that one, because David is certainly correct when he says that just because something has always been done in a certain way, doesn't mean it's right.
A political party must be a team. Primaries are an elimination process, and the Republicans have always done a better job of avoiding attacks against each other, at least since 1968. Rockefeller, George Romney (Mitt's Dad), and William Scranton viciously attacked Goldwater in the 1964 primaries as a warmonger. When they tried to fold in and support him following his nomination, Johnson's campaign was able to very effectively use their attacks against him in campaign ads.
In 1972, the Democrats made the same mistakes in attacking McGovern during primary debates.
Hillary was warned over and over not to attack Obama's qualifications during debates, but she and Bill could not stop themselves. Even if it's the way they really felt, they should have stuffed it. It's apparently the main reason she wasn't chosen as Veep although she was clearly the best pick for unity. Biden made one allusion to Obama's lack of experience, and even that momentary indiscretion is being used in McCain commercials.
It might be fun to reverse Bill Clinton, but I'm sure it will confirm his true motivations. He hopes McCain will win, so that Hillary can come back and run again in 4 years. In 8 years, age might be too much of a factor for her. But, he'd have to be conflicted, since he knows what 4 years of a McCain administration will do to the country. Obama may be inexperienced, but he'll do OK if he surrounds himself with the right people. In any case, if the Clintons don't get with the program, they're going to become pariah's within the party. That's as it should be. Hillary's attacks in the primaries mandate that her support of Obama become far more than tepid.
McCain and Romney despised each other, and showed it in their attitudes, but they did not attack each other, since for the most part, they observed the Republican maxim, "Speak no ill of a fellow Republican." The Democrats should follow the same rule. For this reason, they can work together.
The Democrats have one non team-player, and that's Joe Lieberman. Trust me on this one, following the election, he'll be stripped of his committee chairmanships and forever locked out of any decision-making considerations in the Senate. Shed no crocadile tears for him. He's got 4 more years to serve in the Senate. He may try to gain favor with the Republicans by switching his party registration, but as a turncoat, they'll probably never let him into their insider's club either. In 4 years, he'll probably leave the senate and fade into obscurity.
The remark, "The next president," can't be considered deceptive, since everyone knows the election hasn't been held. You will see the Republicans do the same thing, and you might even see minor party candidates with no chance of getting even 1% of the vote do it. I cannot imagine introducing a candidate for any office any other way.
It's part of effective marketing. David Lee works in sales, so he understands the principle that you have to assume the sale. You want your customer to visualize ownership. That's why, in debates, all the candidates would make remarks that would begin, "and when I am president..."
It does help close deals. If you exude confidence when you are making a sale, you will not close every sale, but you will certainly have better numbers than if you sound insecure.
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Aug 28, 2008 13:11:54 GMT -5
I was working last night, so I won't actually see Clinton's speech until I watch the recording in a few minutes. But I've seen clips, and did anyone notice that the great band on the floor played Aretha Franklin's "Chain of Fools" as Clinton took the stage?
Do you think this was intentional?
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Post by redwolfe on Aug 29, 2008 8:58:39 GMT -5
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cdh
Full Member
Posts: 104
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Post by cdh on Sept 11, 2008 10:56:29 GMT -5
These David are the things that piss me off.
Senator Biden’s plagiarism of a speech by British Labor Party leader Neal Kinnock took place at a campaign stump at the Iowa State Fairgrounds. In closing his speech, Biden took Kinnock’s ideas and language as if they were his very own inspired thoughts, prefacing Kinnock’s ideas with the phrase “I started thinking as I was coming over here . . . “. Little did Biden suspect that video footage of this speech would be spliced together with footage of Kinnock’s speech in an “attack video” which would be distributed by members of the Dukakis campaign.
Morels in public office are everything.
cdh
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Sept 11, 2008 13:35:49 GMT -5
Uh...cdh...that was 20 years ago. The silly scandal forced Biden, who was clearly the best candidate at the time, out of the race, and got us Dukakis, who in turn, gave us the first Bush.
So far as I remember, he was stealing Kinnock's style, since the issues would have been different. Most notable, Kinnock would make a statement and punctuate it with, "and if you don't believe me, you can ask my wife." Biden started making the same statement, and even copied Kinnock's hand-gestures as he said it.
The way he got caught, is the first time he said it, he would say, "As Britain's Labour Party leader, Neil Kinnock likes to say...", but after a couple of times, he dropped that part. Since he'd already given it away, when he later failed to give the reference, it led to plagiarism accusations, forcing him out of the race.
We've got a PTSD old man who could easily die in office, to be followed by a young religious extremist who belives in the rapture, the endtimes, and the "young-earth" theory. As a dominionist, she is allied with people who believe they can bring back Jebus by triggering Armaggedon. She has the clear support of all the extremists like Tim LaHay and James Dobson. As such, she represents an unmitigated evil.
All our rights teeter on the balance, and both McCain and Palin want Nazi judges appointed to the US Supreme Court.
And, you think it's more important that Biden borrowed parts of Kinnock's speeches 20 years ago?
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Sept 11, 2008 15:44:44 GMT -5
For all Palin's talk about helping to kill the bridge to nowhere, which she initially favored, it appears that she actually kept most of the Federal Money earmarked for the bridge. She just didn't build the bridge, but instead put the money into Alaska's general fund. www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/11/kaye.palin.honest.cnn
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cdh
Full Member
Posts: 104
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Post by cdh on Sept 11, 2008 15:47:57 GMT -5
so much for the leopards spots..
The Viet Nam conflict is even older but that also seams a politcal platform.
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Sept 11, 2008 17:22:51 GMT -5
Well now...58,000 Americans and possibly a million or so Vietnamese died during that botched and mistaken war. Comparing a plagiarized speech 20 years ago to a holocaust like Vietnam is a bit of a non-sequiter.
However, maybe it was a way of God, or whoever, watching out for Biden. Shortly after the 1988 elections, Biden was diagnosed with 2 brain aneurisms. He underwent emergency surgery and was not expected to survive...yet he pulled through miraculously and has been in great health ever since.
Had he not stolen or borrowed Kinnock's speech, or elements of his speech, he might have become President and died in office.
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Sept 11, 2008 17:25:18 GMT -5
In any case, which is worse? A plagiarized speech from 20 years ago, or a religious fanatic who would like to bring on Arageddon in order to bring back Jebus?
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cdh
Full Member
Posts: 104
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Post by cdh on Sept 12, 2008 6:58:28 GMT -5
Plagiarism as late as 2006 is still stealing. Possibly he has never recovered from his aneurysm.
Ive never heard morels described as silly before. I also read further up this thread about honesty. Shouldn't it start with our leaders?
cdh
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