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Post by Roland of Gilead on Nov 2, 2008 6:07:48 GMT -5
This is from Gore Vidal: ________________ An Open Letter to Senator Obama and the Democratic Leadership: On Election Night, DO NOT CONCEDE!
“Eight years is too much” is how Barack Obama explained why we must win the coming election and begin to restore America. But, even if we receive the most votes, will we win the election?
DO NOT CONCEDE! Both of the last two elections were conceded by the Democratic presidential candidate. The 2004 election was handed to George Bush while votes were still being counted in closely-fought Ohio. While the 2000 election was contested to the Supreme Court, it too was ultimately conceded to Bush “for the good of the country.”
Some good.
Numerous politicians, investigators and authors, including Robert Kennedy, Jr., agree the 2004 election was stolen, not only in Ohio but in several other battleground states. Tactics included purging of legitimate voters and the use of nefarious voting software--but when even these actions did not yield the required numbers, Republican election officials simply changed the vote tallies in several states, all without a peep from the Democratic Party.
DO NOT CONCEDE! In the time since the last general election the public has learned much about these scandals, which have led some states to reject electronic touchscreen voting (and which caused the infamous Diebold voting machines corporation to hide behind a new corporate name,) yet the Democratic Party seems to have learned nothing.
THREE STRIKES AND WE'RE OUT! If we cannot afford another Republican administration, we cannot afford a third concession in the face of election fraud. Already there is evidence of massive fraud such as voter purging and caging of Democratic voters, and “flipping” of votes in early voting on electronic touchscreen machines. It is reasonable to once again expect further manipulation on election night by some Republican operatives and election officials, as was seen in 2004; should we also expect our Democratic Party leaders and candidates to repeat history, by once again conceding in the face of such blatant fraud? Senator Obama, we need you, our Party and all candidates to stand firm, come what may on election night. You ask us to work for you, contribute to you--and to have your back; we ask that you promise to have our back: We ask that you PLEDGE TO STAND FIRM, AND NOT CONCEDE THE COMING ELECTION in the face of election irregularities, no matter how long it takes to contest such fraud, while there remains any doubt as to any part of the process. Be assured, Democratic voters will be more--not less--energized if we see you promise to stand firm.
Senator Obama, if there is any reason to contest the election, DO NOT CONCEDE!
Signed: (Titles for identification purposes only) Gore Vidal, Author
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cdh
Full Member
Posts: 104
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Post by cdh on Nov 2, 2008 16:24:17 GMT -5
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Nov 2, 2008 17:11:11 GMT -5
Cute video. BTW, you probably know the bit about Americans pretending to be Canadian while visiting Europe is true. Claiming to be American will get you spit on in Italy.
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Nov 2, 2008 18:53:14 GMT -5
If McCain wins through election theft...
Remember remember the fifth of November Gunpowder, treason and plot. I see no reason why gunpowder, treason Should ever be forgot...
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Post by Shadout Mapes on Nov 2, 2008 19:27:48 GMT -5
I'm wishing I headed to Canada like so many of my friends did 20 years ago. Now you gotta have some wealth to emigrate to Australia even! Canada is where things started off in the right direction 50 years ago and you can see with the USA how not following that has lead it now. ><Tomasina ChicaWolverina!
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Post by davidlee on Nov 3, 2008 8:38:04 GMT -5
Cute video. BTW, you probably know the bit about Americans pretending to be Canadian while visiting Europe is true. Claiming to be American will get you spit on in Italy. Funny Rick, I've spent a significant amount of time in Italy over the last seven years. Don't recall getting spat at! Maybe shit on by a pidgeon..... The only time I feel unloved is when I pull those damn Euros out of my pocket and bend over....hehe Well I went against my stubborn nature and voted early. So I can now tune out all the last minute BS. BTW Rick, we were in Ft. Lauderdale last week for the International Boat Show. Did you ever get the chance to see that when you lived down there? Sooo many beautiful yachts but not much business going on. Alot of people just standing around looking bored. Some good parties though....all in all.
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Nov 3, 2008 12:15:51 GMT -5
Oh, yes, I was at two of the boat shows, but the first one was thrown together, a month late after Hurricane Wilma in 2005. Everyone said it was nothing like it should be, and they were right, because the 2006 boat show was incredible. I was wondering if it would be as big now with the economic downturn, so it's nice to know some things don't change. I don't know if I mentioned it here, but a couple of weeks ago, CNN was covering the early voting election lines at the Broward Courthouse in Plantation. They said the lines had a 3 to 4 hour wait, yet in the two elections I voted in there I never had to wait more than 15 minutes, so the excitement is definitely big. What I saw there, I've never seen anywhere else, which is judges and judicial candidates approach you when you wait in line introducing themselves and handing out flyers. CNN showed that, so it was Deja-Vu seeing it. Does that happen up north as well? I guess I exaggerated. What Italians would do, or so I was told, is that if you say you're American, they spit on the ground. It's a way of showing contempt, but they don't actually spit on you. Sorry I mis-spoke. I also talked to a Mexican-American who spent a few months in Spain. He made some close friends, but always told them he was a Mexican Citizen. He was uncomfortable letting them know he was actually an American Citizen until they knew him better, and as soon as he did, they started yelling at him about Bush! But...that will change. This picture is from Spain, and it's "carved" in gravel, and like the Nazca Lines, can only be seen from the sky. For perspective, note the houses and buildings surrounding it. Ooops...looks like it won't image, so click on this: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1082591/Prepare-chaos-U-S-electoral-warned-cope-historic-number-voters-cast-ballot-McCain-Obama.html
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cdh
Full Member
Posts: 104
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Post by cdh on Nov 3, 2008 13:15:49 GMT -5
Well I went against my stubborn nature and voted early. So I can now tune out all the last minute BS.
Four frigging pages.
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Nov 3, 2008 17:12:25 GMT -5
This is actually posted on the Drudge site, and is supposed to be an inside Republican memo on how to read early exit polls tomorrow. But it looks to me like a pretext for covering up election theft as was done in 2004. Mark my words...if McCain wins fair & square, that's fine. But if there is any appearance of election theft, there may be blood in the streets. _______________________________ McCAIN CAMPAIGN MEMO: READING THE EXIT POLLS Mon Nov 03 2008 16:53:14 ET
As we have seen in previous election cycles, the exit poll results do leak early and that ends up influencing the coverage of the race before even the first state polls close at 6:00 PM Eastern.
However, we want to remind the campaign that the media’s own post-election study of the exit polls in 2004 showed that the exit polls overstate the Democratic candidate’s support. Therefore, we would discourage a rush to judgment based on the exit polls and wait until there has been a representative sampling of actual tabulated results from a variety of counties and precincts in a state.
Here are the key points to keep in mind when the exit poll data starts being leaked:
1. Historically, exit polls have tended to overstate the Democratic vote.
2. The exit polls are likely to overstate the Obama vote because Obama voters are more likely to participate in the exit poll.
3. The exit polls have tended to skew most Democratic in years where there is high turnout and high vote interest like in 1992 and 2004.
4. It is not just the national exit poll that skews Democratic, but each of the state exit polls also suffers from the same Democratic leanings.
5. The results of the exit polls are also influenced by the demographics of the voters who conduct the exit polls.
After the 2004 election, the National Election Pool completed a study investigating why the exit polls that year showed John Kerry over performing 5.5 net points better than the actual results showed him to have done. Their conclusion was that the primary reason the exit polls was that Kerry voters and Democrats were more likely to participate in the exit polls.
“Our investigation of the differences between the exit poll estimates and the actual vote count point to one primary reason: in a number of precincts a higher than average Within Precinct Error most likely due to Kerry voters participating in the exit polls at a higher rate than Bush voters. There has been partisan overstatements in previous elections, more often overstating the Democrat, but occasionally overstating the Republican.
We believe that this will hold true this year. The recent Fox News survey showed that 46% of Obama voters said they were very likely to participate in the exit polls, while just 35% of McCain supporters are.
In fact, even the 2004 exit poll report noted that higher turnout nationally and higher levels of voter interest in both 1992 and 2004 correlated with greater Within Precinct Error.
The overstating of the Democratic vote did not only occur in the national exit polls, but also occurred in the state exit polls. The 2004 exit poll report cited that the Kerry vote was overstated by more than one standard error in 26 states, while the Bush vote was overstated in just four states. So we should also expect the individual state exit polls on Tuesday to be more Democratic as well.
So given that turnout is expected to be even higher than 2004 and that Democrats are more likely to participate in the exit polls, this means we should expect greater fluctuation and variation in the exit polls from the actual election results.
The 2004 exit poll report also showed that the greatest error in the exit poll came in precincts where the interviewer was younger. The completion rates were lower and the refusal rates and Within Precinct Error was higher when the interviewers were under the age of 35.[6] Complicating this is that nearly half the interviewers were under the age of 35, including 35% who were 18-24 and another 15% were 25-34.
Conclusions
Based on the previous exit poll results, we should expect once again that Tuesday’s exit poll data could overstate the Obama vote and under represent the McCain vote.
It is important that the campaign make sure the media realizes this, so that when the exit polls do leak, people do not overreact to the early exit poll data. Rather than looking at the exit polls, we should wait until we start seeing actual election results from key precincts and counties to gauge who won the election.
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Post by Shadout Mapes on Nov 3, 2008 17:36:02 GMT -5
So they should wait until after the first poles close in the Eastern states first? ><Tomasina ChicaWolverina!
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Post by Roland of Gilead on Nov 4, 2008 20:13:35 GMT -5
To David Lee...I would not pinpoint your location without your permission, but your county as I write this is going almost 2 to 1 for Obama whereas it went heavily for Bush in 2004!
Obama leads big right now in Florida, and the Tri-County area has not yet reported! I was worried at first, since Barack is under-performing in Virginia.
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Post by davidlee on Nov 5, 2008 9:00:38 GMT -5
To David Lee...I would not pinpoint your location without your permission, but your county as I write this is going almost 2 to 1 for Obama whereas it went heavily for Bush in 2004! Obama leads big right now in Florida, and the Tri-County area has not yet reported! I was worried at first, since Barack is under-performing in Virginia. Your right Rick, I watched that with a little surprise late night. I didn't expect it to be that big of a margin. They did say that the I-4 corridor would be the major factor for one candidate or the other....looks like Blue won out big this time.
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